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Mike
Humphrey wrote: |
Hi, guys —
I've been dialoguing with a Catholic who has dissented from
the Church by breaking off to the right. She is a member of the third order
of the Society of St. Pius X, a schismatic society.
I've taken
the long dialogue I had with her and I have pulled out the major arguments
she had.
It comes with the usual dissenting non-Catholic
opinions:
- Vatican II was merely a Pastoral Council
with the exception of Lumen Gentium, which restated the things
already stated in previous Councils.
- The Vatican II documents were hijacked
from the bishops with the Petri.
- The Masons and communists subverted
Vatican II.
- The bishops have made the Catholic
Church bow down to the Protestants.
- Pope Paul VI did not have a right
to create a new Mass, therefore I cannot accept that the Novus
Ordo is a valid Mass. It is so similar to a Protestant service.
- John Paul II, although we prayed for him
unceasingly, was a globalist, and he could not make one decision
to stop any of the abuse that occurred on his watch, like:
- the Assisi mess (with an earthquake occurring right afterward)
- kissing the Koran
- meeting with
the Jews, etc.
- This piece of junk you call a Catechism
of the Catholic Church is full of flaws.
She also went on to say when Pope John XXIII and Pope Paul VI were dying, they
admitted
that they messed up and asked:
- Why did Pope Paul VI say that the "Smoke of Satan has
entered the Church." if he was so sure he was correct in
changing the Mass?
She also stated:
- Have you read the book by Cardinal Ottaviani regarding the
Novus Ordo that was presented to Paul VI?
— There were serious
errors in the Novus Ordo that still exist today.
I've never read the Ottaviani Intervention and would like an
opinion on it.
Mike
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{ Can you address the Ottaviani Intervention and these arguments from a dissenting Catholic? } |
Richard replied:
Hi Mike,
The "Ottaviani intervention" was a long essay with concerns
about the revised Mass, and many of the objections are reasonable,
but none are so severe as to leave its validity in doubt.
If I remember right, most of it was written by a Dominican named
Fr. Guerard des Lauriers, with Cardinal Ottaviani writing a cover
letter. Cardinal Ottaviani himself later indicated that he was satisfied
with the assurance he received from Pope Paul VI, about the proper
interpretation of the revised rite.
The text of the "intervention" is probably on the Internet.
— RC
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Mary
Ann replied:
Hi Mike,
All but the 5th and 7th points in the list could be
true and be held by a faithful Catholic, but saying:
- the
Novus Ordo is not valid, when it is the Church who
determines what is a valid rite, and
- saying that the Catechism is
not authoritative, when the Pope so declared it . . .
cross the line into rejection of the Magisterium and
of Papal authority.
Hope this helps,
Mary Ann
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