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Jomhar Corpuz wrote:

Hi, guys —

  • Can anyone share their thoughts on this Protestant article regarding temporal punishment?

I don't know how to respond to this.

Highlighted quotes:

"The Roman Catholic must show from the Scriptures that God's purpose for allowing forgiven people to suffer the consequences of sin in this life is a vindicatory punishment, a restitution, the payment of debt to divine justice, and not just for teaching and preventive purposes."
"Catholics live under the cloud of punishment yet to be experienced which keeps them separated from God. Even after death, this separation remains until expiation is made through fire, torments and purifying punishments. What a contrast to the comfort of the Gospel!"
"Jesus? Blood is our only satisfaction for sin. We have absolute confidence in God's Mercy and Jesus's Perfect Sacrifice."
"My earthly parents loved me and disciplined me in order to correct and train me. Their punishment was disciplinary, not vindicatory or to pay a legal debt. That is so different from what the Catholic Church teaches. They insist that God's punishment is also vindicatory, and until you have expiated all your sins, you would not be allowed in the Father's house."

Jomhar

  { Can anyone share their thoughts on this Protestant article regarding temporal punishment? }

Eric replied:

Dear, Jomhar —

Let's look at some of this material in context. Your interlocutor asserts:

The Council Of Trent emphasizes that the penitents should keep in mind that "the satisfaction imposed by them is meant not merely as a safeguard for the new life and as a remedy to weakness, but also as vindicatory (i.e. avenging) punishment for former sins."
           
(Council Of Trent, Session 14, Chapter 8).

Actually, this is factually wrong in two respects:

it is not the penitents that it enjoins to keep this in mind, but the priest who is assigning a penance.

  1. So one, he attributes to the penitent what belongs to the confessor; and
  2. two, he confuses a penance with the temporal punishment God inflicts.

Let's look at all of Chapter 8. I know it is long, but we have to row hard against this sound bite world because not everything is satisfactorily expressed in one-sentence quotes and sound bites.

I will highlight key aspects here.

Lastly, as concerns satisfaction, which as it has, above all the parts of penance, been at all times recommended to the Christian people by our Fathers, so is it the one especially which in our age is, under the highest pretext of piety, impugned by those, who have a form of godliness, but have denied the power thereof: the holy synod declares, that it is absolutely false, and alien from the word of God, that the guilt is never remitted by the Lord, without the whole punishment also being pardoned. For clear and distinct examples are found in the sacred writings, by which, besides by divine tradition, this error is refuted in the plainest manner possible. And, in good truth, the nature of divine justice seems to demand, that in one manner, they, who through ignorance have sinned before Baptism, be received into grace; and in another, those who, after having been freed from the servitude of sin and of the devil, and having received the gift of the Holy Ghost, have not feared, knowingly to defile the temple of God, and to grieve the Holy Spirit. And it becomes the divine clemency, that sins be not in such wise remitted unto us without any satisfaction, as that, occasion being obtained, thinking sins less grievous, we, having done as it were an insult and a despite unto the Holy Ghost, should fall into more grievous sins, treasuring up wrath against the day of wrath. For, without doubt, these satisfactory punishments greatly recall from sin, and restrain as it were with a bridle, and make penitents more cautious and watchful for the future; they also furnish remedies for the remains of sin, and, by opposite acts of the virtues, they remove the vicious habits acquired by evil living. Neither indeed was there any way ever in the Church of God accounted surer to turn away the punishment impending at the hands of the Lord, than that men should, with true sorrow of mind, frequently practise these works of penitence. It adds further to these things, that, whilst we, by making satisfaction, suffer for our sins, we are made conformable to Christ Jesus, who satisfied for our sins, from whom all our sufficiency is; thence, having also a most sure pledge, that if we suffer with him, we shall also be glorified with him. But neither is this satisfaction, which we discharge for our sins, so much our own, as not to be through Jesus Christ. For we who can do nothing of ourselves, as of ourselves, can do all things, He co-operating, who strengthens us. Thus, man has not wherein he should glory, but all our glorying is in Christ: in whom we live; in whom we merit; in whom we satisfy; bringing forth fruits worthy of penance, which from Him derive their virtue; by Him are offered unto the Father; and through Him are accepted by the Father. Therefore the priests of the Lord ought, as far as the Spirit and prudence shall suggest, to enjoin salutary and fitting satisfactions,  according to the quality of the crimes and the ability of the penitents; lest, if by chance they connive at sins, and deal too indulgently with penitents, by enjoining certain very light works for the most grievous crimes, they be made partakers of other men's sins. But let them have before their eyes, that the satisfaction which they impose be not only unto the preservation of a new life, and a medicine for infirmity, but also unto the avenging and punishing of past sins. For likewise, the ancient fathers both believe and teach, that the keys of the priests were given, not to loose only, but also to bind. But not, therefore, did they suppose that the sacrament of Penance is a court of wrath or of punishments; even as no Catholic ever thought, that, by this kind of satisfactions on our part, the virtue of the merit and of the satisfaction of our Lord Jesus is either obscured, or to any extent lessened: which, while the innovators wish to understand, they in such wise teach that a new life is the best penance, as to take away the entire virtue and use of satisfaction.*

The Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent, Buckley, Theodore Alois,(London: George Routledge and Co., 1851), pp. 95–97

This whole section, by the way, pertains to penance, that is the imposition of prayer, fasting, and almsgiving that a priest makes on someone in Confession, not to Purgatory or temporal punishment that God inflicts. It basically says that the priest should impose a penance that will discourage the penitent from sinning again, and will move him from vice to virtue.

The penitent must "fully satisfy the justice of God." Satisfaction (or penance) is an act of the penitent "by which he makes certain reparation to the justice of God for his sins."

(See the Catechism of St. Pius X; Questions 105, 118, clerus.org)

Let's again look at the text:

105 Question. What is satisfaction?

Answer. Satisfaction, which is also called sacramental penance, is one of the acts of the penitent by which he makes a certain reparation to the justice of God for his sins, by performing the works the Confessor imposes on him.

118 Question. Do those who die after having received absolution but before they have fully satisfied the justice of God, go straight to Heaven?

Answer. No, they go to Purgatory there to satisfy the justice of God and be perfectly purified.

This admittedly gets us a bit closer, but look at the sleight of hand he uses:

"The Roman Catholic must show from the Scriptures that God's purpose for allowing forgiven people to suffer the consequences of sin in this life is a vindicatory punishment, a restitution, the payment of debt to divine justice and not just for teaching and preventive purposes".

The "Roman Catholic" has no need to show anything from the Scriptures, since "Sola Scriptura" (Scripture alone) is a self-refuting assertion. He is moving the ball onto his side of the court. 2 Thessalonians 2:15 says,

"Hold fast to the traditions you received, whether by word of mouth or by letter."

That should be enough to refute "Sola Scriptura", though I have more verses if necessary.

We've already seen that the "vindicatory punishment" has to do, not with the temporal punishment that God inflicts, but with the penance that the confessor imposes. Dr. Mizzi goes on at length about this alleged "vindicatory punishment" but it all falls flat because it's based on an error.

Moreover he has to demonstrate that as long as this satisfaction is discharged the forgiven person is not yet in a right relationship with God, or, as the Council of Trent puts it, the temporal punishment remains to be paid "before access can be opened to the Kingdom of heaven." This they cannot do!

Since he hasn't provided a citation for this part of Trent, and I cannot find it, I can't quote it in context, but there is a big mistake here in that he says

"as long as this satisfaction is discharged the forgiven person is not yet in a right relationship with God"

which is just incorrect. The whole assumption behind purgatory is that the believer is in a right relationship with God (otherwise, they'd be in Hell).

"Before access can be opened to the Kingdom of Heaven"

presumably refers to Purgatory. As soon as one confesses, one is restored to the grace of God if one was not in it, and one who was in the grace of God before remains in it.

He goes on to err:

Catholics live under the cloud of punishment yet to be experienced which keeps them separated from God. Even after death, this separation remains until expiation is made through fire, torments and purifying punishments.

This is simply not true.

"Absolution takes away sin, but it does not remedy all the disorders sin has caused" (Catechism of the Catholic Church Number 1459).

A wicked person who confesses their mortal sins is immediately restored to God's friendship, and those in Purgatory remain in God's friendship, though under purification. That's what the purpose is of the absolution the priest does at the conclusion of the rite of Confession.

(The Acts of the Penitent.)
.
.
Satisfaction

1459 Many sins wrong our neighbor. One must do what is possible in order to repair the harm (e.g., return stolen goods, restore the reputation of someone slandered, pay compensation for injuries). Simple justice requires as much. But sin also injures and weakens the sinner himself, as well as his relationships with God and neighbor. Absolution takes away sin, but it does not remedy all the disorders sin has caused. (cf. Council of Trent (1551): DS 1712) Raised up from sin, the sinner must still recover his full spiritual health by doing something more to make amends for the sin: he must make satisfaction for or expiate his sins. This satisfaction is also called penance.


The Sacrament of Penance and Reconciliation.

IX. The Effects of this Sacrament.

1468 "The whole power of the sacrament of Penance consists in restoring us to God's grace and joining us with him in an intimate friendship." (Roman Catechism, II, V, 18) Reconciliation with God is thus the purpose and effect of this sacrament. For those who receive the sacrament of Penance with contrite heart and religious disposition, reconciliation "is usually followed by peace and serenity of conscience with strong spiritual consolation." (Council of Trent (1551): DS 1674) Indeed the sacrament of Reconciliation with God brings about a true "spiritual resurrection," restoration of the dignity and blessings of the life of the children of God, of which the most precious is friendship with God. (cf. Luke 15:32)

  • Does this help at all?

Eric

Jomhar replied:

Wow!

That was quite the answer!

Thanks! That was very helpful.

Blessings,

Jomhar

Eric replied:

Jomhar —

You are very welcome, and I appreciate the feedback.

Eric

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